Coin(s) through Transparent Silk References Please

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erdnasephile
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Coin(s) through Transparent Silk References Please

Postby erdnasephile » November 28th, 2017, 7:45 pm

I am researching this plot.

So far I have found:
Michael Ammar's Routine
Chris Powers' Routine
Al Schneider's Routine
Nathan Kranzo's Routine
Dave Barry's Routine

(I am also aware of many of the classic coins through non-transparent slik routines that can be adapted, but am focusing on those published using transparent silks for now. I have also heard of a Flicking Finger's routine but haven't been able to locate the reference yet).

If you are willing to share any additional references, I would greatly appreciate it if you would please post them here (or PM me please).

Many thanks in advance for your help!

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Re: Coin(s) through Transparent Silk References Please

Postby Richard Kaufman » November 29th, 2017, 1:29 am

Michael Ammar's routine is based on something that appeared in Apocalypse, but I can't recall the guy's name. Surely someone here will remember.
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Re: Coin(s) through Transparent Silk References Please

Postby Kent Blackmore » November 29th, 2017, 1:45 am

Petrick's routine using his magnetic stage-sized coins?

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Re: Coin(s) through Transparent Silk References Please

Postby Ian Kendall » November 29th, 2017, 2:48 am

The Apocalypse routine was Liquid Silver by Russ Burns. Vol 4 April 1981 (pg 469)

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Re: Coin(s) through Transparent Silk References Please

Postby Richard Kaufman » November 29th, 2017, 8:49 am

Ian, wasn't the Burns routine the first version with a sheer handkerchief?
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Re: Coin(s) through Transparent Silk References Please

Postby Philippe Noël » November 29th, 2017, 10:49 am

Gerrit Brengman told me that Fred Kaps had a routine where 4 coins pass through a transparent silk hold by two spectators.
I don't know if someone else saw that...

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Re: Coin(s) through Transparent Silk References Please

Postby Ian Kendall » November 29th, 2017, 12:42 pm

I just checked Encore 3 as well, and he credits Liquid Silver there.

Reading through the Apocalypse write up - it uses a normal handkerchief.

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Re: Coin(s) through Transparent Silk References Please

Postby Jonathan Townsend » November 29th, 2017, 2:21 pm

IIRC there's an item in Bobo's where you have a [ on top of the hank and the coin below wedged in so it stays there so you can show an empty hand reaching underneath....
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Re: Coin(s) through Transparent Silk References Please

Postby Curtis Kam » November 29th, 2017, 2:45 pm

Yes, JT, “Hanketration”, it’s credited to Ed Marlo and Takeshi Nemoto.

One of the “Flicking Fingers” guys published a version in Genii (I think) using a woman’s sheer nylon stocking instead of a transparent hank.

Harold Cataquet has a handling of this with a clear plastic bag. The performer’s hand is in the bag, and once it goes in, it does not come out. Still, all three coins penetrate through.


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Re: Coin(s) through Transparent Silk References Please

Postby chetday » November 29th, 2017, 3:32 pm

Here's a link to Al Schneider's "Osmosis":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9S9pavdVRKw

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erdnasephile
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Re: Coin(s) through Transparent Silk References Please

Postby erdnasephile » November 29th, 2017, 5:49 pm

Thank you for the nudges (and pushes) in the right direction(s). (I will search my Genii files to see if I can find the Flicking Fingers reference. Is the Cataquet routine in Genii as well? Not sure where to start looking for the Kaps' routine--I wonder if James' Lewis muscle pass solution (with a glass pane) could be used with a transparent silk between two spectators idea).

The penetration in Bobo strikes me as very interesting, as I don't think that particular gimmick has been published in a transparent scarf routine. In fact, all of the above routines listed in the original avoid gimmicks altogether. Something for me to think about.

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Re: Coin(s) through Transparent Silk References Please

Postby Tom Gilbert » November 29th, 2017, 10:26 pm

There's a guy that performs it with a ziplock and 4 coins. Zeki is his name.

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Re: Coin(s) through Transparent Silk References Please

Postby Richard Kaufman » November 30th, 2017, 2:20 am

The so-called Jim Lewis idea was actually published in CoinMagic years earlier and it was created by John Cornelius: muscle pass under the table that ricochets off the glass and lands in a spectator's hand.
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Re: Coin(s) through Transparent Silk References Please

Postby Philippe Noël » November 30th, 2017, 3:06 am

I always thought that "Fred Kaps routine" was in fact Larry Jennings's Coins and Handkerchief from the Classic Magic of Larry Jennings.

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Re: Coin(s) through Transparent Silk References Please

Postby Denis Behr » November 30th, 2017, 3:57 am

Tom Gilbert wrote:There's a guy that performs it with a ziplock and 4 coins. Zeki is his name.

Alexander de Cova does a clear plastic bag routine as well. It's for example published here: http://www.conjuringarchive.com/list/bo ... ight=45687

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Re: Coin(s) through Transparent Silk References Please

Postby Ian Kendall » November 30th, 2017, 4:10 am

The De Cova routine was also published in Genii, but I can't find the exact reference at the moment (it was in the Larsen era). It's called the Ultimate Coin Penetration, if anyone want to search. Prolly in the mid 90s.

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Re: Coin(s) through Transparent Silk References Please

Postby Richard Kaufman » November 30th, 2017, 8:12 am

The Jennings routine was first, I think, published in Pabular.
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Re: Coin(s) through Transparent Silk References Please

Postby Tom Gilbert » November 30th, 2017, 9:27 am

Mr. De Cova's routine with the ziplock is in the December 1995 issue.

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Re: Coin(s) through Transparent Silk References Please

Postby Philippe Noël » November 30th, 2017, 1:04 pm

Here is a link of Larry Jennings performing his coins and handkerchief:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?time_conti ... vvE7dZaLuc

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Re: Coin(s) through Transparent Silk References Please

Postby Tom Frame » December 1st, 2017, 12:52 pm

Many years ago at Fechter's, I saw John Carney perform an elegant routine with coins and a transparent silk. I don't recall if it was his routine. If it was his routine, I don't know if he ever published it.

John, can you refresh my foggy memory?
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Re: Coin(s) through Transparent Silk References Please

Postby Ian Kendall » December 1st, 2017, 1:23 pm

Probably the one in the Book (and Video) of Secrets?

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Re: Coin(s) through Transparent Silk References Please

Postby erdnasephile » December 2nd, 2017, 10:10 am

This is great! All the help is much appreciated--been going through Denis Behr's resource as well--it's educational and fun to trace the history here. I haven't yet found a transparent silk routine that predates Michael iAmmar's. (I also appreciate the correction on who originated the muscle pass penetration idea.)

I'll dig through my Genii archive and library to see if I can locate the missing specific links above.

A further question: have any of you used a transparent coins through silk effectively in a parlor setting? I realize how strong it can be close-up, but I'm wondering if the translucent penetration aspects that make this so strong can be appreciated in bigger groups. (Mr. Ammar has written that he has performed the routine effectively for groups as big as 100, but I would think you'd want to get an expressive spectator up on stage with you so the audience could appreciate their reaction in order for this to play). My other thought was to use a wine glass to highlight the penetration of each coin.

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Re: Coin(s) through Transparent Silk References Please

Postby Richard Kaufman » December 2nd, 2017, 5:49 pm

It would seem to work best for a large group if you've got video going on.
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Re: Coin(s) through Transparent Silk References Please

Postby Curtis Kam » December 2nd, 2017, 9:21 pm

You know, performing for a larger group, where people might not be able to see how many coins are inside the silk, would motivate removing the coins from inside the silk each time, as you do in the Ammar routine, but not the Powers.

Use coins dollar sized, or bigger, make full use of sound, and emphasize clarity in the handling, and it should work for a larger crowd.

What do you guys think of this: in a parlor setting, start by doing Osmosis briskly, then bring someone up to witness it up close, ala Ammar or Powers?


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Re: Coin(s) through Transparent Silk References Please

Postby Jonathan Townsend » December 2nd, 2017, 10:26 pm

Trying to read intent for the magic effect... if you're treating the scarf as a table (with volunteers - so it's a working surface more than a container) - how about doing the James Lewis routine? Or even use parts of Deal Dill's triangle routine?
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Re: Coin(s) through Transparent Silk References Please

Postby Ian Kendall » December 3rd, 2017, 4:18 am

*Power

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erdnasephile
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Re: Coin(s) through Transparent Silk References Please

Postby erdnasephile » December 3rd, 2017, 6:10 am

Curtis Kam wrote:You know, performing for a larger group, where people might not be able to see how many coins are inside the silk, would motivate removing the coins from inside the silk each time, as you do in the Ammar routine, but not the Powers.

Use coins dollar sized, or bigger, make full use of sound, and emphasize clarity in the handling, and it should work for a larger crowd.

What do you guys think of this: in a parlor setting, start by doing Osmosis briskly, then bring someone up to witness it up close, ala Ammar or Powers?


I really like that idea!

In a similar vein: how about starting with a simple coin penetration with an opaque silk, then moving to a transparent silk close up "so you can really see what's going on"?

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Re: Coin(s) through Transparent Silk References Please

Postby erdnasephile » December 7th, 2017, 11:33 am

Tom Frame wrote:Many years ago at Fechter's, I saw John Carney perform an elegant routine with coins and a transparent silk. I don't recall if it was his routine. If it was his routine, I don't know if he ever published it.

John, can you refresh my foggy memory?

Ian Kendall wrote:Probably the one in the Book (and Video) of Secrets?


I wasn't able to locate this routine in the Book of Secrets. However, I did see a great multiple phase coin routine that involved a handkerchief (and a mouse!) in Carney's The Masters Sessions. I'll drop Mr. Carney a line and see if the coins and transparent silk routine he performed has been published.

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Re: Coin(s) through Transparent Silk References Please

Postby Ian Kendall » December 7th, 2017, 11:47 am

The routine is on the video of secrets (can't remember which one off the top of my head). It's a coins to glass thing that ends with a coin star?

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Re: Coin(s) through Transparent Silk References Please

Postby erdnasephile » December 7th, 2017, 2:03 pm

I do remember seeing that routine---somehow I missed the fact it had a silk in it. I'll check it when I get home. Thanks!

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Re: Coin(s) through Transparent Silk References Please

Postby erdnasephile » December 7th, 2017, 10:20 pm

I found the routine being referenced; however, I discovered the silk is used mostly to hide some devious moves and as a method to highlight the beautiful climax of the trick. There is no penetration of the silk by the coins.


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